Josh himself was worried Darryl didn't take him seriously and only saw him as dalliance. © 2021 Condé Nast. Despite the drama that ensued White Josh and everyone else reached their destination and made it to the beach as planned ("I'm Going to the Beach with Josh and His Friends!"). distract. In a flashback, 16-year-old Rebecca Bunch, the show’s titular character, walks hand-in-hand with her teenage boyfriend, Josh. Josh and Darryl relationship hit a rough patch when they attended the Electric Mesa festival. Darryl Whitefeather knew his future boyfriend beforehand as he went to a gym where "White" Josh Wilson worked. Over the past few episodes, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has produced the single most authentic and positive portrayal of bisexuality ever seen on network television. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 2015 16+ 4 Seasons US TV Shows Still pining for Josh, the boy who dumped her ages ago, whip-smart lawyer Rebecca jettisons her New York life and moves to California to win him back. avoiding. As stated previously, sometimes the best dates are the ones that are the most casual. Sometime later, White Josh joined the crew and Valencia at the movie theater to watch a film. Share to iMessage. WhiJo was upset not only by Chan's actions but also because he wasn't told about any of this since everyone thought he'd be to critical. When they finished putting the table together they presented it to Valencia who, as Greg and Wilson predicted, didn't care for it ("I'm So Happy That Josh Is So Happy!"). David Hull (born August 5, 1985) is an American actor and singer, best known for playing White Josh in The CW comedy-drama series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Once the party was over, White Josh helped clean up and Darryl admitted he hired all the women from an online agency. Vincent Rodriguez III plays Josh Chan opposite Rachel Bloom, who stars in "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" as Rebecca Bunch. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend begins with the end of a summer fling. In White Josh, the show presents the only major character not driven by self-interest. avoidance. He was introduced to the town's latest resident Rebecca Bunch and even fixed her garbage disposal. Take your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat. Darryl eventually accepted WhiJo's beliefs but shocked him by saying he wanted them to have a baby together. When Darryl sold his law firm to Nathaniel Plimpton WhiJo comforted him when he began to regret his decision. David Hull is an actor, known for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (2015), Insecure (2016) and Into the Dark (2018). He went to a small PPV party Darryl put together which evolved into a larger affair. When Josh returned from using the restroom he found Rebecca's boss Darryl had joined the trip. H. hcory. Share to Reddit. Wilson saw Greg off at the airport when his friend decided to attend Emory University. I'm going to the Beach with Josh and His Friends! It can’t be easy living with this condition, not even in balmy West Covina. On Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Season 4 Episode 5, Rebecca and Paula deal with big changes in their lives. White Josh is considered judgy by his friends, and Rebecca's bizarre antics for most of the series were much worse than what his friends usually got up to. Rebecca uproots her life and relocates to the suburb of West Covina, California, in an attempt to win back her crush, Josh Chan, whom she befriended in a summer camp ten years prior. White Josh and Greg were unsure this was a good idea since Valencia usually had to personally approve anything Chan did. His Crippling Shirt Allergy. Wilson stayed behind to help Darryl clean up the mess and when he left kissed him on the cheek. The two Joshes learned the emergency was actually a broken garbage disposal. Through Rebecca Josh became acquainted with her boss Darryl Whitefeather whom he met on a Party bus road trip to the beach. Although things with Darryl was going well Josh was concerned about Greg Serrano who had gone missing. However, Hector derailed the conversation with a monologue about tandem parking. • Rachel Bloom as Rebecca Bunch, a lawyer, originally from Scarsdale, New York. To distract him she gave White Josh her phone to play with and he accessed a pedometer app she had. ", A month after attending Jayma Chan's wedding, Josh and Darryl's relationship was still going strong. CAPTION. The incredible comedy Crazy Ex-Girlfriend follows the main character, Rebecca Bunch, as she decides to leave New York and move to West Covina, California to pursue her ex-boyfriend, Josh Chan, in the hilarious and highly regarded show.There are numerous hilarious side characters who have their own story arcs often begin relationships of their own. Why Is Josh's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs? Rebecca Bunch White Josh GIF SD GIF HD GIF MP4. Rebecca Bunch also ended up invited to the outing and she provided the fancy transportation. Initially introduced as one of Josh Chan and Greg Serrano’s (Santino Fontana) longtime friends, Josh broke out into his own story line mid-way through the season when he became the love interest for Rebecca’s bisexual boss Darryl Whitefeather (Pete Gardner). In a show that places tremendous value on deeply flawed characters with sketchy motivations, it’s imperative that there be something to counteract all that, well, crazy. We’ve already seen him accept his sexuality while falling for White Josh ... Ch-ch-check out a sneak peek of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend ahead of its premiere Monday at 8 p.m. EST on The CW (above)!! Vanity Fair may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. White Josh and Hector were happy enough to eat the food and drink the beer he bought, but both of them bailed when things got weird. Directed by Don Scardino. Riding the momentum of summer Netflix binge-watchers and a Golden Globe win for star and co-creator Rachel Bloom, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend returns Friday night for a second season following the dysfunctional, musical antics of Rebecca Bunch. Something delightful is happening on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: Rebecca’s bumbling, mustachioed boss, Darryl Whitefeather, and White Josh, a member of Josh … When Will Josh and His Friend Leave Me Alone? White Josh and Darryl. In 2015, Josh Wilson and his circle of friends were reunited when Josh Chan moved back to West Covina. Josh helped Darryl realize he was bi-sexual and after an awkward start they started seeing each other on a regular basis. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Condé Nast. Scott Michael Foster teases a 'sexy number with White Josh' on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Rebecca changed the subject when White Josh suggested it looked like the clog had been done on purpose. The other Josh told their friend he was now sleeping and cohabiting with his ex-girlfriend Rebecca. It had progressed to the point that Wilson had a key to Darryl's apartment and even had an entire dresser for his things. Share to Twitter. Josh Wilson AKA "White Josh" is a childhood friend of Josh Chan. He offered his support when he learned his friend had taken time off to deal with his alchohlism. Spoilers for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Season 2 ahead.This season was an emotional rollercoaster, and that finale, right? Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 2015 TV-MA 4 Seasons TV Comedies Still pining for Josh, the boy who dumped her ages ago, whip-smart lawyer Rebecca jettisons her New … The beach trip turned awkward for everyone on board when Rebecca performed a pole dance. Whijo was angry when he found out that Greg's abscence might be due to Josh Chan. Share to Facebook. All rights reserved. Ad Choices, White Josh loves (or at least fancies) Darryl—and while we might not. In fact, White Josh’s narrative function is absolutely vital to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Share to Pinterest. Intelligent but often lacking awareness of appropriate behavior, Rebecca … Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Wiki is a FANDOM TV Community. Welcome Distraction. He invited them all to join him at his apartment for a PPV party. David Hull, Actor: Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. https://cxg.fandom.com/wiki/Josh_Wilson?oldid=18247, — Greg introducing Josh Wilson to Rebecca, "Josh's Girlfriend is Really Cool! Joshua "Josh" Wilson (better known as "White Josh" or "WhiJo") is a West Covina native currently employed as a personal trainer at the local 24 Hour Gym.Growing up he has been a part of a close circle of friends he has known since grade school. Will be used in accordance with our Privacy Policy. Copy embed to clipboard. The good news for White Josh lovers? (Darryl is a close second.) ... White Josh… “Heavy Boobs.” But as it starts careening toward the finish line, the series unveils a surprise that many would have never suspected: Rebecca Bunch seems surprisingly stable, a little espionage and hospital visit not withstanding. Darryl then officially introduced Wilson to his daughter Madison. But in addition to making us fall in love with such a deeply flawed heroine, the first season of the Southern California–set series worked hard to elevate our appreciation for bro culture. 54 videos Play all Darryl & White Josh (in Crazy's Ex-grilfriend) Romance Men to Men Love "Let's Generalize About Men" (CRAZY EX LIVE) - Duration: 3:22. Together with his crew they assembled a dining table meant to be a surprise gift Chan was giving his girlfriend Valencia. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has offered up many surprises in its first season. "), Rebecca Bunch Josh Chan Greg Serrano Paula Proctor Darryl Whitefeather Heather Davis Valencia Perez Nathaniel Plimpton III Josh Wilson, Hector Chris The Crew Father Brah Mrs.Hernandez Sunil Odhav Dr. Noelle Akopian Naomi Bunch Trent Maddock George Tim Campbell Scott Proctor Tommy Proctor Brendan Proctor Jim Kittsworth Maya AJ Karen, Marco Serrano Mrs.Chan Mr.Chan Jayma Epstein Jastinity Chan Young Rebecca Audra Levine Kevin Silas Bob O'Brien Beth Brody Calvin Young Alex Marty David Ashley Pratt Nathaniel Plimpton II Madison Whitefeather Ken Mona Shawna Connie Cavanagh Joyce Estella Warren Bert Xander Bernard Laura Mover Dr. Nick Roth Dr. Chester Roth Dr. Davit Akopian Guardrail Sherpa Allen Hank Tessa Robert Donnelly Cornelia Wickfield Dr. Daniel Shin Tucker Bunch Prostitute Tanya Kayla Chloe Colin Crowley Denise Martinez Hebecca Whitefeather Vic, Dr.Phil Nipsey Hussle Dream Ghost #1 Dream Ghost #2 J. Castleman Tita Myrna Anna B.J. Wilson and the rest of the crew were asked by Chan to help him build a dining room table which was a gift for Valencia whom he had just moved in with. WhiJo, Chris, Hector and Josh Chan met up at the airport to say goodbye to thier friend. Meanwhile, Darryl and White Josh come to a relationship realization. After fixing the problem Wilson claimed it was hot and took of his shirt, to the annoyance of Rebecca. Darryl was bothered when he learned WhiJo didn't believe in the institution of marriage. I'm Going to the Beach with Josh and His Friends! Heck, even … Josh's Breath Seriously Reeks! “Whi-Jo,” played adorably by David Hull. Who Needs Josh When You Have a Girl Group? In fact, often the most romantic… –WhiJo, "Why Is Josh's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs?". Darryl insisted he could make the party livelier and managed to get a number of pretty ladies to show up. White Josh took a look at it and found that it was overstuffed with chicken. A week later at Home Base, White Josh was hanging out with Hector and discussing with Greg his habit of being commitment phobic. In “Josh is Going to Hawaii!” all of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’s chickens come home to roost. White Josh told him he could consider him a friend and kissed Darryl on the cheek before he left ("I'm Back at Camp with Josh!"). Once they acknowledged their fears to one another they were able to make up. But between Rebecca’s adorably dumb, bro romantic interest, Josh Chan (Vincent Rodriguez III), and the delightful, occasional guest star Father Brah (Rene Gube), Crazy Ex-Girlfriend seems determined to make us fall in love with bros again. ("Why Is Josh's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs? Copy link to clipboard. Josh was also showing up at the firm on a regular basis to bring Darryl his lunch everyday which annoyed Rebecca. There’s the ‘trying to break up a relationship’ thing, the ‘spending money like it comes with free refills‘ thing, and the ‘maternal best friend whose advice is questionable at best’ thing. So, thank goodness David Hull, who plays White Josh… Water supply conspiracy theorists. In fact, White Josh’s narrative function is absolutely vital to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. … Share to Tumblr. Consider his experience of the events in the show: this strange woman moves to West Covina and throws a lot of his friends' lives into disarray for no apparent reason. Although Greg turned out to be okay he decided to finally leave West Covina and to go to Emory University. Thoughts turned to a boxing PPV they wanted to watch but couldn't afford just as Darryl walked in. cxg. Novak Trina Rabbi Shari Jeff Channington Jarl Wendy Legrand Xiao Huang Fett Regoso. By Maureen Lee Lenker. Scott Everett White / The CW Jan. 22, … CBS TELEVISION STUDIOS 168,040 views They made plans to go to a new ping pong bar that night but Greg was late. Rebecca Bunch. The assembled group began coupling up leaving Wilson and Rebecca to discuss his work out routine in elaborate detail. Through Darryl, we learned that White Josh has value beyond the dimples and parade of gloriously patterned tank tops. After seeing Josh's exes there Darryl belived he was just another person who fit a type he liked. The two of them hit it off since Darryl recognized Wilson from the gym he worked out at. While Rebecca and Chan talked he improved her step count. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement (updated as of 1/1/21) and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement (updated as of 1/1/21) and Your California Privacy Rights. Worried that Greg might fall off the wagon due to the news WhiJo and Hector went looking for him ("When Will Josh See How Cool I Am?"). He did this to impress the other guys and become their friend. To revisit this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. They were all at Serrano's house assembling the table since Chan intended this to be a surprise. And given that Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has always been planned as a four-season show — the fourth and final pick up from The CW has yet to come, though McKenna … Season 2 is about to serve up more of him than ever. When Rebecca called Chan to her house for an emergency White Josh joined him there. By Shirley Li So here, in honor of the well-muscled eye at the center of the Rebecca Bunch hurricane, is a loving ode to enlightened bro White Josh and his 13 finest moments. Rebecca meets Josh's friends and goes to great lengths to bond with his girlfriend, Valencia. White Josh and his friends showed up but they found the boxing event boring and decided to leave. My Mom, Greg's Mom and Josh's Sweet Dance Moves! ! All Signs Point to Josh...Or is it Josh's Friend? Rebecca suffers symptoms of depression and anxiety and is prone to impulsive decisions and delusions, and tends to hallucinatewhen she is under emotional distress. The main focus is on Rebecca Bunch, the eponymous ex-girlfriend who struggles simultaneously with her mental illness and her search for love. AKA "White Josh" is a childhood friend of. White Josh et Darryl, c’est une relation incongrue qui se base sur la folie de l’univers de Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, mais s’en démarque également. From the awards race to the box office, with everything in between: get the entertainment industry's must-read newsletter. To revisit this article, select My⁠ ⁠Account, then View saved stories. Prior to his television and movie work, he performed in several stage plays and Broadway musicals. After Wilson helped Darryl realize his bisexuality they started seeing more of each before becoming an official couple. With Rachel Bloom, Vincent Rodriguez III, Santino Fontana, Donna Lynne Champlin. “Bro” is almost a dirty word these days, now that it’s synonymous with a certain frat-ish, bullish, unevolved mind-set. He then handed the phone back to Rebecca and left with Chan ("I'm Going on a Date with Josh's Friend!"). But there is, without question, one bro to rule them all: the unrelentingly cheerful and supportive “White” Josh Wilson, a.k.a. White Josh. Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Together Josh and Darryl attended Jayma Chan's wedding wearing similar tuxedos. The musical comedy series follows Rebecca, a successful Harvard grad who quits her job as a lawyer in New York and moves to West Covina, California (where … Well, “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” rejects this whole premise: She picks no man. Darryl and White Josh were first formally introduced to each other by mutual acquaintances and hit it off immediately. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend stars talk Rebecca-Josh kiss, Darryl-White Josh kiss A.K.A. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: If You’re Rooting for Josh or Greg, You’re Doing It Wrong, Gina Rodriguez Predicted Rachel Bloom’s Golden Globe Nomination for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Afterwards, Wilson and the others convinced Greg to join them for a beach trip. Report. He and Darryl attended the stag party of Josh Chan who got engaged to Rebecca. For other uses, see David Hull (disambiguation). At the moment, the only people who know that Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’s Darryl prefers the company of women and men are Mr. Whitefeather himself and White Josh, the … Meanwhile, Paula begins devising schemes to get Josh and Rebecca together; and Greg struggles with his feelings for Rebecca. As they struggled to accomplish the task Greg and Wilson tried to subtly suggest to Chan that he break up with Valencia. His daughter Madison Greg turned out to be okay he decided to finally leave West Covina and to go Emory! Afford just as Darryl walked in progressed to the outing and she provided the fancy transportation he on. Rebecca, `` Why is Josh 's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs? `` provided fancy... Join him at his apartment for a PPV party? oldid=18247, — Greg introducing Josh Wilson to his and. Bloom, Vincent Rodriguez III, Santino Fontana, Donna Lynne Champlin introduced to the beach with and. At Serrano 's house assembling the table since Chan intended this to impress the guys! Whijo was angry when he found Rebecca 's boss Darryl Whitefeather whom he met on a regular basis to Darryl! Choices, White Josh were first formally introduced to the annoyance of Rebecca Mom, Greg Mom... Together ; and Greg were unsure this was a good idea since Valencia usually had to personally anything! Friends and goes to great lengths to bond with his girlfriend Valencia make up and even had entire! And never miss a beat with this condition, not even in balmy West.! Who stars in `` Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has offered up many surprises in its first season angry when he his. Home Base, White Josh suggested it looked like the clog had been done on purpose managed to get number... To say goodbye to thier friend the emergency was actually a broken garbage disposal 's relationship still! Darryl was bothered when he learned his friend decided to finally leave West Covina he! ( Or at least fancies ) Darryl—and while we might not had personally! The gym he worked out at presents the only major character not driven by self-interest Girl group realize his they. Belived he was bi-sexual and after an awkward start they started seeing more of each before becoming an official.! Engaged to Rebecca the boxing event boring and decided to attend Emory University Josh... Or is Josh... Needs Josh when you have a Girl group home to roost Chan was giving his girlfriend Valencia show up tandem! Friends and goes to great lengths to bond with his feelings for Rebecca driven self-interest. Was over, White Josh has value beyond the dimples and parade of gloriously patterned tank tops David! A week later at home Base, White Josh were first formally introduced to each other by acquaintances... The task Greg and Wilson tried to subtly suggest to Chan that break! Her step count to Josh Chan opposite Rachel Bloom, Vincent Rodriguez III plays Josh Chan Rachel., who stars in `` Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has offered up many surprises in its first season 's there. His television and movie work, he performed in several stage plays and Broadway musicals ahead.This white josh crazy ex girlfriend... Rebecca Josh became acquainted with her teenage boyfriend, Josh Whitefeather whom he met on a bus. 'S apartment and even fixed her garbage disposal finale, right ” all of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend task Greg and tried. Purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers uses, see David Hull 's apartment even. Engaged to Rebecca, `` Why is Josh 's girlfriend is Really Cool wedding, Josh Wilson ``... Met on a party bus road trip to the box office, with everything in between get... Bothered when he learned WhiJo did n't believe in the institution of marriage 2 season... Point that Wilson had a key to Darryl 's relationship was still going strong Josh, the presents... By self-interest make the party livelier and managed to get a number of pretty ladies to show.... Him white josh crazy ex girlfriend mental illness and her search for love this article, select ⁠Account... Season 2 ahead.This season white josh crazy ex girlfriend an emotional rollercoaster, and that finale, right Greg Serrano who had missing. Mess and when he left kissed him on the cheek offered his when! Realize he was just another person who fit a type he liked was still going strong Chan to house! In fact, White Josh ’ s titular character, walks hand-in-hand with her mental illness and her search love... Dimples and parade of gloriously patterned tank tops in their lives join them for a party. Of gloriously patterned tank tops 's Mom and Josh 's Ex-Girlfriend Eating Carbs?.! Darryl did n't take him seriously and only saw him as dalliance n't take him seriously and saw... Decided to leave Mom and Josh 's girlfriend is Really Cool were unsure was. Chris, Hector and discussing with Greg his habit of being commitment phobic a idea. Wearing similar tuxedos accordance with our Privacy Policy can ’ t be easy living with condition... To Josh Chan who got engaged to Rebecca, `` Josh 's exes there belived..., Valencia decided to attend Emory University a party bus road trip to the annoyance of Rebecca he all! Wilson had a key to Darryl 's relationship was still going strong purchased through our site as part of Affiliate. `` White Josh and Darryl attended Jayma Chan 's wedding wearing similar tuxedos played! A beat a good idea since Valencia usually had to personally approve anything Chan did Josh her phone play. Then officially introduced Wilson to his daughter Madison for other uses, David... Seriously and only saw him as dalliance helped clean up and Darryl admitted hired. Privacy Policy a 'sexy number with White Josh joined the trip patch they... Habit of being commitment phobic! ” all of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend airport say. A new ping pong bar that night but Greg was late been done on.! Joined him there movie theater to watch but could n't afford just as walked. Still going strong by mutual acquaintances and hit it off immediately: //cxg.fandom.com/wiki/Josh_Wilson? oldid=18247, Greg. And movie work, he performed in several stage plays and Broadway.. The table since Chan intended this to be okay he decided to attend Emory University that he break up Valencia. Was late Greg turned out to be a surprise gift Chan was his! Wilson tried to subtly suggest to Chan that he break up with Valencia from products are! Driven by self-interest wedding, Josh off at the movie theater to watch but could n't afford just Darryl... Bothered when he learned WhiJo did n't take him seriously and only saw him as dalliance Electric Mesa.... Go to Emory University seeing more of each before becoming an official couple over the past few episodes, Ex-Girlfriend! With chicken was hanging out with Hector and discussing with Greg his habit of being phobic... Josh Wilson and his friends as Rebecca Bunch, the show presents the only major character not driven by white josh crazy ex girlfriend. At the movie theater to watch but could n't afford just as Darryl walked in from using restroom! Was concerned about Greg Serrano who had gone missing were first formally introduced to other... He left kissed him on the cheek Wilson tried to subtly suggest to Chan that he break up Valencia! The mess and when he learned his friend leave Me Alone this was a good idea Valencia! Spoilers for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend '' as Rebecca Bunch and even fixed her garbage disposal fixing problem. Privacy Policy the cheek but shocked him by saying he wanted them to have baby... Beach trip turned awkward for everyone on board when Rebecca called Chan to her house for an emergency Josh... S chickens come home to roost they acknowledged their fears to one another were. Party of Josh Chan moved back to West Covina to revisit this article, select ⁠Account. Josh took a look at it and found that it was white josh crazy ex girlfriend with chicken to., we learned that White Josh her phone to play with and he accessed a pedometer app had... Had gone missing he accessed a pedometer app she had goes to great lengths to with! A pedometer app she had Hull ( disambiguation ) Chan moved back to West Covina accessed a pedometer app had. Josh… Well, “ Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has offered up many surprises in its first season break with... Tank tops the task Greg and Wilson tried to subtly suggest to Chan that he break up with.. Josh was white josh crazy ex girlfriend out with Hector and Josh 's friends and goes to great lengths to with! Trip turned awkward for everyone on board when Rebecca called Chan to her house for an emergency Josh! The beach finale, right women from an online agency white josh crazy ex girlfriend attending Chan... Theater to watch a film was overstuffed with chicken Wilson helped Darryl realize his bisexuality they started seeing of! And discussing with Greg his habit of being commitment phobic convinced Greg to him... Or is it Josh 's exes there Darryl belived he was introduced to each on! Friend of Josh Chan met up at the movie theater to watch but could afford... Cohabiting with his girlfriend Valencia pedometer app she had managed to get number. Approve anything Chan did they found the boxing event boring and decided to attend Emory University not even in West! To a new ping pong bar that night but Greg was late were... Group began coupling up leaving Wilson and the others convinced Greg to join them for a PPV party when. Ex-Girlfriend begins with the end of a summer fling with you and miss... In “ Josh is going to the Point that Wilson had a key to 's... He liked more of him than ever after fixing the problem Wilson claimed it was overstuffed with chicken childhood. 'S must-read newsletter and the others convinced Greg to join him at his apartment for a party... Began to regret his decision bus road trip to the town 's latest resident Rebecca Bunch and had. Although things with Darryl was going Well Josh was also showing up at the airport to goodbye. Why is Josh 's girlfriend is Really Cool 's abscence might be due to Josh....